Why I finally cancelled my order

[aerospaceboy]

So I finally did it. Six months after placing my order it is now cancelled. Not that it is looking like getting my money back will be easy, as I am beyond the date for getting an easy refund from paypal (a payment method no longer used on the sumpod website for some unknown reason, but I think that the refund policy may have something to do with it). For anyone in my position of waiting for half a year and being fed a stream of tracking numbers which never track, excuses for delays and promised shipping dates that come and pass for months on end I can understand your frustration. For anyone looking to get a Sumpod, I will leave you with the only thing I ever received from Richard, emails.

11/06/2012

Hi,

just like to say Thank You for buying a SUMPOD. Please join the forum.

Thanks

Richard

(A forum which has now been deleted. The reason for this is unknown, but members have complained on here about deleted posts months before its removal)

02/07/2012

Hi,

the first batch have been booked in/sent and unfortunately due to some under spec parts, your order will be in the next batch. These are estimated to arrive within the next 10 days.

(If this had of happened then the printer would have only been half a month late)

19/07/2012

Hello,

first I would like to say Thank You for buying a SUMPOD.

This is an update on the estimated shipping schedule for both Basic and Aluminium models.

Due to a problem with the courier the first batch of Aluminium SUMPODs have been delayed. I expect this to resolve very soon.

The biggest regret, apart from the frustration felt by some customers, is that I like feedback on the machines I send out, to help make better machines. Each iteration of the SUMPOD hopefully builds on the previous version.

The Aluminium and basic versions are the two ends of the goal I had when I first designed the SUMPOD. The basic is my attempt to bring the price down, yet still have the core components of a quality machine.

The Aluminium models are an attempt at making a good value, quality machine. .

There have been a few problems but these will hopefully be a distant memory once you take receipt of your machine.

I still expect the machines ordered before the most recent campaign to be sent before the end of July, with the campaign machines shortly afterwards. If this creates a problem please email or call and I will try and resolve it.

The website is being redesigned but is hopefully due to go back online within the next few days.

Again thank you for buying into SUMPOD and I appreciate your patience.

Thanks

Richard Sum

(The website did go back up, with no changes that I could see. Maybe the aforementioned user forum was getting to much to moderate)

30/07/2012

Hi,

the end of the month is approaching so expectation is high for the delivery of SUMPODs.

Our aim this week is to get as many machines out of the door, no excuses, just working to fill orders and show you good people why it was a good idea to buy a SUMPOD in the first place.

A tracking number will be sent and should start tracking within 24 hours. Sometimes the parcel will turn up before this has happened, in the case of the UK.
Also I am hoping to implement a part of the new site which involves order updates. If you get an email stating you have placed an order please use the option to reset your password. This will then mean when you log in you can track where your order is in the build process. Chances are some of the first orders out will not get an email, just a tracking number.

Thanks

Richard Sum

(I did not get my first tracking number until the end of september)

06/08/2012

Hi,

just to keep you updated. There was a problem with the stepper drivers which have delayed the shipping of the machines. Replacements have been sent and should arrive in the next day.


Thanks

Richard Sum

14/08/2012

Hello,


sorry for the lack of updates. This was due to waiting for some concrete news about the stepper drivers. Unfortunately they haven't yet turned up, coming from China, but I expect them in the next day, according to tracking. Its always the way that when you are waiting for something, customs decides to check it.

Its not the best start to the new range of machines and given the loss of some customers, along with the delays, its getting quite difficult at SUMPOD HQ.

Thank you for your patience and all being well this will be the week.

Thanks

Richard Sum

(I have had customs check a package, and it did not delay it for more than a day)

17/08/2012

Hi,

some (uk sourced) stepper driver parts have arrived, so shipping will commence at the beginning of next week.

Thanks

Richard Sum

31/08/2012

Hi,

as outlined in the last email. This is to confirm that you are in a Aluminium SUMPOD batch that will be sent a tracking number no later than Friday 14th and probably before Friday 7th.

Thanks

Richard Sum

(I got the tracking number at the end of september)

05/09/2012

Hi to all,

can you make sure you have sent your phone number as without I cannot book it in with the courier.

Thanks

Richard Sum

14/09/2012

Hi,

just to say orders are going out but slowly. I am working all weekend to try and reduce the backlog.

Anyone with a tracking number, you should receive your order in the next few working days.

To the others, especially later orders, some have opted to have a kit. Kits can be sent quicker but require some soldering and wiring. If you want to take up this offer, I will guarantee your order will leave and track by Tuesday. Even without having a kit, it shouldn't be much longer.

Also to those who have a machine, I would like feedback regarding packaging if you have the time.

Thanks

Richard Sum

20/09/2012

Hi,

just to say orders are going out but slowly. I am working all weekend to try and reduce the backlog.

Anyone with a tracking number, you should receive your order in the next few working days.

To the others, especially later orders, some have opted to have a kit. Kits can be sent quicker but require some soldering and wiring. If you want to take up this offer, I will guarantee your order will leave and track by Tuesday. Even without having a kit, it shouldn't be much longer.

Also to those who have a machine, I would like feedback regarding packaging if you have the time.

Thanks

Richard Sum

29/09/2012

UPS tracking number received 1Z0W2Y476890776806


01/10/2012

Hi,

just an update. I know its been said before but everything is in place to get the machines out this week.

I understand the frustration but I completely miscalculated the time it would take to build the machines and set them up. Even though I bought in "tested" electronics this unfortunately wasn't the case. Given these were sourced from China the turnaround has added to the shipping delays. The next batch will definitely be sourced closer to home.

So I would just like to say it won't be much longer now and thank you for your patience.

Thanks

Richard Sum

04/10/2012

Hi,

I block book UPS and send the machines in batches. This is so I get the price breaks. Due to the delay on building some of the machines in this batch I have held off sending the parcels. These should move in the next day.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks

Richard

15/10/2012

Hi,

just to start I would like to apologise for the lack of updates.

I would like to say first that unfortunately the new SUMPOD vision hasn't fully gone to plan.

Ironically the reason for designing the new Aluminium model was to avoid the problems I had with the first batch of original SUMPODs.

The main problem with the first batch of MDF SUMPODs was having to settle for an untried machine which then proceeded to give me months of headaches.

By designing the Aluminium to be made mainly offsite using other peoples machines and expertise, it is now apparent that not all cnc machinist are equal.

I have learned quite a lot more over the last months but unfortunately this decision has contributed to the delays.

This learning process also applies to some of the electronics I bought which should have been plug and play and fully tested but ended being as far removed from that ideal as possible.

One point about shipping. I have an account with UPS which gives me discounts on shipping for a certain amount of machines in any one week.

The cost of shipping is calculated with this in mind. This is the reason I send in batches.

SHIPPING

So I now expect with some certainty that machines bought before August should be sent in the next 7 days. The batch I am getting ready is nearly complete.

The second batch of machines bought after this time will hopefully be filled by the end of next week, in the order bought.

I have realised that to make this a successful business, there needs to be changes in certain areas. Customer service being the main one.

I have added a list to the website asking for anyone with certain skills to help take SUMPOD forward, to get in touch. Even if you don't have the specific skills but want to contribute then please contact.

Lastly I uploaded the Yoda video to show the standard speed you should be getting from a SUMPOD. If you are having problems, please email and we can discuss ways to get the most from your machine.

Thanks

Richard

23/10/2012

Hi,

the back orders will ship this week as planned.

thanks

Richard

29/10/2012

Hi,

sorry for the silence. Machines are going out and I hope to have all of the backlog cleared soon.

Updates will be going up on the site soon, along with revised manuals. If you require help in assembling your machine and do not see the information on the site please say so I can update.

To those who have shown an interest in helping I will contact soon.

Thanks

Richard Sum

12/11/2012

Hi,

just an update on where we are with shipping the backlog and other news.

After a few problems with Paypal, which now have been resolved, I can now ship the final units from the backlog this week.

I again apologise but unfortunately the delays had a knock on effect on other parts.

I do thank you for being so patient.

Regarding the new shipping times of two weeks for new orders. The reason for the two week timescale is first to ensure all previous orders have shipped before any of the new orders are sent,
and also due to finding a more reliable CNC miller who has been able to make larger batches of parts.

Lastly, not so relevant, I have joined up with another company who will take over the packaging and shipping of kits.

Thanks

Richard

20/11/2012

Revived inter-parcel tracking number. This was meant to ship on the 21st. Upon checking out the on-line order form with inter-parcel it was not down to be picked up until the 30th. As expected by now this date passed as well.

30/11/2012

Hi,

sorry for the lack of updates. Just trying to ensure that this email will be the last one regarding the backlog.

The situation at the moment is as follows:

By the end of Saturday, I hope to have all of the kit versions of the Aluminium and Basic machines packed, if not fully shipped. This will mean that at the latest they should ship is by Monday. If you get a tracking number and it hasn't moved by Monday evening please email.

This will leave about 10 built machines to complete over the weekend.

Now the reason for the delays in shipping are mainly due to the initial problems with quality and the knock on effect on Paypal.and cashflow. Due to this I had to take alternate work in the week, to ensure that the original vision continues.

Believe me when I say that delays have never been a part of the business plan as all they do is deplete finances and more detrimental, drain enthusiasm.

I thank the ones who have continued to wait and understand the reasoning behind those that haven't.

Once the backlog has been cleared I plan on making some proper videos to really show why the machines are excellent and how to get the best from them. Also there is a new site that will go up soon with two new machines along with videos of all the present machines.

Thanks

Richard

03/12/2012

Hello,

just an update about the weekends progress.

We managed to pack the kits over the weekend and will be booking them in for pickup over the next day.

The progress on built units was a bit slower but we hope to have all older orders filled in the next few days.

A new site will be going up for assembly instructions and with a better layout.

Next will come a couple of machines that will be the first that I design and another company will pick and ship the orders. Making it easier for me to work with others on the software.

The first design will be based on the delta printers but as is the case with SUMPOD will be made entirely of Aluminium.

Again I would like to apologise for the major delays and hope the next phase will be smoother than the last.

Anyone who has built a machine please look in on the modification forum for ways of speeding up the nozzle.

Thanks

Richard

03/12/2012

Hi,

I checked your package but due to a problem with the box I have had to get it and repackage it. I will send it out in the morning. Sorry for the inconvenience.

If you prefer and given the delays, I can send you a built unit in a couple of days instead.

Richard

06/12/2012

Hi

sorry at an apple meeting all day. You are welcome to pick your kit up on saturday or I will send tomorrow.

Richard

Sent from my iPad

This was the last email I got from Richard, I have yet to receive any acknowledgement of my request for a refund. You see the thing is that I was able to ask my sales manager to pop by and pick up the kit. Upon his arrival he was met with excuses as to why he could not pick up the kit. It is unfortunate that this has had to go on for so long, as it really did look like a good printer, but in the end it was just to much hassle, and the way Richard treated my work college was unacceptable.

[airtripper]

I'm a bit disappointed with the way things have gone and you have been totally let down. If the Sumpod company still have orders that are up to 6 months old, then I can only conclude that the delays are down to financial problems. A lead time of 2 to 3 weeks for new orders while there is a 6 month backlog of non-delivered orders, good luck with getting your money back.

I don't believe Richard wanted things to go this way and I believe you would get your money back if he can pay it. If I had to nail the root of Richards problems, I would nail it on the printers being much under priced. I don't believe the margins in these printers can support a business.

The Sumpod basic is an awesome machine and I don't see anything on it that would cause months of delays. This printer should be made the best it can be and be properly supported before even considering developing new printer line ups.

The situation with the website does not make any sense at all and has lead to the Sumpod community being destroyed. A good community would have generated traffic to the site that could generate orders and provide good support for the products.

[wills]

'Tis a great shame; Nice product lost by (lack of) customer service. This was never going to be a fit-and-forget kind of product; it was always going to be modified and adapted by it's users. The feed-back and ideas flowing back to the forum should have been vital development path, not cast aside.

[mikemaat]

Agreed. The original forum should have been a place where speech was free and ideas could develop. Then there would have be no need for this forum. The original forum could have been a great place to develop and support each other. A good forum should allow both the postive AND negative feedback. Not delete and ban what he didnt like and whom he didnt like. Very 'Stalin'-istic.

For reference, the original issue the two of us had was that myself and otheres were sick of listening to all the excuses about why shipping was delayed, month after month, so I put a message on the wiki (that I made) , stating that the product was experiencing delays. He didn't like that, and went in and wiped out all the wiki's information. I restored the information and locked the wiki down. I wish I didnt have to, because it was nice having everyone's collaboration, but having him remove everyone's hard work was not fair. Not to mention, the message of "currently experiencing shipping delays" was not even "attacking". It really should have been something that he had listed on his own site.

Im sure he'll post up here with some kind of response. He can say what he wishes, I wont be saying anything more on the issue. I fail to care anymore.

[highcooley]

A topic discussed many times already. And almost every time something happened...a reaction by Richard or whatsoever, that I couldn't comprehend.

I fully agree with airtripper, that Richard probably didn't want things to happen as they did. And yes, considering what you get for the price you pay (remember, it's made in the UK and not in the US), the Sumpod is much under priced to make a living from it. The order batch size would have to be much larger to get parts cheep enough and draw a proper margin to sell the complete Sumpods for this price.

However, the latest developments on Sumpod.com don't make sense to me once again. Why cutting off the people who can help making the product as well as the whole business work? As stated by Richard in the beginning of the venture, it was part of the business plan to build the product around a community. And the decision was wise as this is one of the few options you have as a newcomer on the market, to sell products in this price range b2c online. I also remember a criticizer on the Reprap forum long before any machine was shipped who's critics where much severe than any on Richards forum. So, just why?

Meanwhile, the shipping issues are well known in the RepRap community. Why ignore and conceal this fact, instead of providing confidence on the own forum and dealing with the people's concerns? Gosh and why announcing a a new delta printer which can be preordered without a picture of a design. As long as the other available options are not working properly and there are these huge delivery problems, I would not even think about increasing the product range. This time and money should be invested in making the current business work.

In conclusion, I gave up hope that I could get the support I needed by the sumpod company and found very nice people in the community to further work on our sumpods...be it on this forum or on the wiki.

[demonic69]

I picked my Sumpod up on sat after ordering it back in June.
I fully expected a long delay, otherwise I would have paid more for an already established unit. I've kept a close eye on many Kickstarter and IndieGoGo campaigns and there are very few tech related ones that don't run over, let alone one as ambitious as this.

I can see why people would get upset at the wait, and the updates haven't been brilliant, but I knew I was getting on at the ground floor. The campaign has helped create something new, not just allowed one of the many, many clones to be pushed out, overpriced.

I think Richard's main problem was over-committing himself, probably to keep the funds flowing, running the whole show on his own. Richard comes across more as an engineer than a businessman, constantly changing and upgrading the SUMPOD basic, working on the Alu, then the Big Alu, now the Delta, rather than getting the basic ready, shipped and reliably sourced, then moving onto the next iteration.
This seems prevalent in the maker community, especially with crowd-funding, where the designers now have a means of getting their product direct to the users, without having to go through the middle-men (who, at times, actually add value).

I don't think it will be long before some bright-spark attempts to fill that gap in the supply chain, offering makers a service where a 3rd party assists in handling the logistics, suppliers etc, possibly reducing delays to market. So long as this doesn't stifle the makers it could be a good thing in my opinion, though they would need to be 100% sure about taking responsibility.

I wasn't really an active member of the forum as I was still waiting for my unit, so I can't say I know what was going on. One one hand I don't think anyone should be censoring the community they're trying to create, on the other I can understand why; there wouldn't be a community without a product, and their wouldn't be a product without the business that's making it happen. Blasting Richard and Sumpod publicly is damaging him and his business, reducing any chances of shorter lead times, future upgrades etc.
Look at Northern Rock, they had no financial difficulty until the media started telling everyone they did, forcing a panic, taking NR well into the red.

I'm looking forward to assembling my Basic, getting it running and, hopefully, contributing to the scene. I also hope Richard, SUMPOD and the SUMPOD community bounce back from supplier issues, delays etc and get on track with innovating and bringing down the cost of home 3D printing.

[aerospaceboy]

So I got my money back, and it was surprisingly easy. As I had paid via bank transfer with paypal my bank was able to pull the money back into my account within the day, and paypal sorts out the rest (not a clue why it works like that but glad it dose). It is best to wait a week though before you spend any of it as the seller could dispute the action, but after a week the transfer is final. So good news.

I am glad you got your sumpod demonic, and I understood that a wait was invertible, that is why I gave him five times longer that first was stated for delivery. There has been other products which I have waited for even longer than this, like the raspberry pi that was going to come out in 2011 but didn't turn up till June. The big difference is that I was never lied to about the raspberry pi, I was never given a tracking number that never started, never told that it was shipping in ten days and it never did. In the end it just destroyed any chance of me and Richard having any form of a working relationship, or any faith that the product would undergo an open development with a good community. Shame, as I still will admit it looks like a good product.

I will agree that the sumpod is under priced for what you are meant to get. But I find it so strange that Richard has done his best to stop any community developing and I find it abhorrent that Richard would destroy a community made wiki just because they openly discuss problems with this emerging technology.

Now I am not sure if this is the only sumpod forum but it is surprisingly quiet, is this down to a lack of community interest, lack of machines, lack of people knowing about it or is everyone away for Christmas?

This will be my last post in the sumpod forum, for I will be getting another 3D printer, but i will pop in to check on any posts. I wish all the users the best with their printers and hope this post is just an isolated case and Richard lets the community develop and gets the machines out to the people who have ordered them.

[highcooley]

Hey aerospaceboy

I think you just gave the answer to your question by yourself by telling that you bought another printer. I know of a couple of guys who where the main drivers to push the sumpod further. They invested a lot of time into the wiki and their blogs, wrote manuals and supported community members in their build, but finally gave in for several reasons. Be it, that they figured out, that they would have to spend more money and effort to make the sumpod (original) work than buying another printer or that they where fed up with the empty promises and the whole communication issues. B

In my case, I still have the original sumpod sitting on my desk. And I took another approach to make it work with the hot end upgrade just recently and I failed again. Additionally, the bed leveling is still not very stable and the bed is put off level very easily. I invested more money into spare parts and upgrades than I spent for the printer itself, only to try to make it work at all. You can imagine, that my motivation to buy another hot end, to build a custom mount and to try to fix the bed leveling is pretty low.

On the other hand, printers and the suppliers have evolved a lot since the original sumpod came out. You get proven to work hot ends (hopefully with standardised mounts soon), ready-made cable sets, modular packages, intelligent designs to reliably adjust all sorts of hardware parameters (angles, distances, tensions, etc.) and the build volume got larger as well.

I am now holding a Rostock Max Set in my hands (two weeks after my pledge). I cannot say, if it will work reliably in the end or not. But so far, I got all the parts it needs for the build (incl. additional amounts for the often used parts), everything is nicely packed in zip-locks and heat-sealed bags, all the machined parts seem to be of a high and precise standard and last but not least, the guys have two proven to work printers on the market with their own hot-end and feeder designs.
What shall I say...when I decided to buy the Rostock Max by seemecnc, I promised to myself to learn from the design and make the sumpod work afterwards. But meanwhile, I am not so sure anymore, if this will happen, as all the little details which caused me a lot of trouble with the sumpod, seem to be solved with the Rostock (getting access to all the electronics for example).

Looking forward to build my new printer and find out, if it serves my turn.

[kumadon]

Hi aerospaceboy,

I also finally cancelled my order for a Sumpod after 4 month waiting, at about the end of last year.

You were refunded all your money you paid for a Sumpod by Richard directly?, or by PayPal after disputing a transaction?

I would like you to tell me how you were able to be refunded.
Thank you.

[airtripper]

I think his bank clawed back the cash from Paypal. This is the type of payment where you pay for items by instant bank transfer via Paypal instead of using credit or debit card via Paypal.

[kumadon]

Thank you, airtripper.

I bought a Sumpod by debid card via PayPal.
In this case, I have to be refunded my money by disputing a transaction to PayPal'sResolution Center, Don't I?

I requested Richard to refund all my money directly to my PayPal account though, his answer is that he cannot directly do that because he loses 15% of the total amount.
I think 15% is too high. maybe at most 8% is reasonable.

[airtripper]

You could talk to your bank that issued the card.

Maybe Richard would prefer to transfer the refund directly to your bank, I'm sure there is no charge for that.

[lochnessi]

hi

I am in the same situation. Nothing is delivered. Payed by Paypal April 2012.
Many empty promises every month. Too late now for paypal refund.

I will now go the official way (Police,advocate,judgement...) to get money back.

If someone has the same problem , want to do the same or have helpfull informations
for me (f.e. to verify address,tel numbers from Richard...) please contact me at

[e-mail]

greets
Thomas

[jamirie]

Be sure, Richard is no scammer. I can confirm that- many others can confirm that. I do understand your displeasure-quite very well... I waited for mine several months to arrive... but hey-i contributed an Indigogo campain, so i knew what i did
Did you ever try to contact him by phone or skype? Can't imagine Richard is that rude- to me he always seems to be a courteous person... And in the end he delivered what i had payed for --->All's well that ends well!

[highcooley]

Yes, definitely check back with Richard first, before you haul out the big guns. I'd suggest to ask (one more time / the last time), when he can deliver and issue an ultimatum. Agree on how you will precede, if he can't deliver until the set date. Unless of course, you don't want your machine anymore, at all. Then I would just agree on how to precede to transfer the money back.

I fully understand your intolerable situation. But too many unnecessary nasty wars are being fought out on court nowadays, because of lack of communication. Besides, I remember Richard promising that he wants to work on his inadequate communication. Confront him with his promise.